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	<title>Comments on: The Rise of the Neo-Greens</title>
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	<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/</link>
	<description>Ecological crisis and archaeologies of consciousness</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-246</guid>
		<description>Just found &lt;a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/29002.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this interesting interview&lt;/a&gt; with Bruce Sterling (founder of the &lt;a href="http://www.viridiandesign.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Viridian Design Movement&lt;/a&gt; and leading inspiration behind &lt;a href="http://www.worldchanging.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;WorldChanging.com&lt;/a&gt;). He talks of the "Viridian hate object", suggesting that it was an intentional experiment in starting his "movement" to foster hatred towards groups that were Green, but not in the way his was:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I singled out the Greening Earth Society as a psychological experiment in the manufacture of a social movement&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Did he do the same with anti-corporate Greens? I can't find any evidence. It's an interesting footnote to this post, though. &lt;em&gt;Intentional&lt;/em&gt; trashing of more established Green currents strikes me as a little more savvy than mindless, fad-driven disrespect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found <a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/29002.html" >this interesting interview</a> with Bruce Sterling (founder of the <a href="http://www.viridiandesign.org/" >Viridian Design Movement</a> and leading inspiration behind <a href="http://www.worldchanging.com/" >WorldChanging.com</a>). He talks of the &#8220;Viridian hate object&#8221;, suggesting that it was an intentional experiment in starting his &#8220;movement&#8221; to foster hatred towards groups that were Green, but not in the way his was:</p>
<blockquote><p>I singled out the Greening Earth Society as a psychological experiment in the manufacture of a social movement</p></blockquote>
<p>Did he do the same with anti-corporate Greens? I can&#8217;t find any evidence. It&#8217;s an interesting footnote to this post, though. <em>Intentional</em> trashing of more established Green currents strikes me as a little more savvy than mindless, fad-driven disrespect.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Glad you like it. Odd that you found it via a word not in my piece, but in one of the comments - thanks, JCD!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you like it. Odd that you found it via a word not in my piece, but in one of the comments - thanks, JCD!</p>
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		<title>By: sutherix</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>sutherix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-56</guid>
		<description>A terrific essay!!  Resource depletion and climate change are cultural issues not technological ones.  The failings of our generation will be remembered by future historians as the inability to focus on what really matters. 

I found this blog by googling pseustainability, a term which independently presented itself to me.  I'm glad others have become aware of it as well.  "faking sustainability" is about the most revolting behavior I can think of besides fascism, escalation,  narrow mindedness.... well maybe its not really that bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A terrific essay!!  Resource depletion and climate change are cultural issues not technological ones.  The failings of our generation will be remembered by future historians as the inability to focus on what really matters. </p>
<p>I found this blog by googling pseustainability, a term which independently presented itself to me.  I&#8217;m glad others have become aware of it as well.  &#8220;faking sustainability&#8221; is about the most revolting behavior I can think of besides fascism, escalation,  narrow mindedness&#8230;. well maybe its not really that bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Not pessimistic - that's just how healthy skepticism appears when a dominant culture based on irrational optimism absorbs a critical mass of its opponents ;-)

The Neo-Green argument here is that transparency is constantly increasing due to monitoring technologies and media coverage. I wonder if there's just an arms race between "transparency technologies" and "deception technologies" - with little if any net gain for transparency, and much energy wasted.

There's an interesting bit in Jared Diamond's &lt;i&gt;Collapse&lt;/i&gt; where he examines the efficacy of sustainable forestry standards - where some certifications are awarded by forestry companies to themselves! And again, George Monbiot recently wrote about the &lt;a href="http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2006/05/30/the-inspectors-who-look-the-other-way/" rel="nofollow"&gt;environmental standards inspectors for UK buildings&lt;/a&gt;. Basically the inspections are a farce. Inspectors are independent contractors, but those who fail buildings don't get hired again. Anyone who thinks they're working for sustainability but doesn't take on board these lessons about the free market is a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not pessimistic - that&#8217;s just how healthy skepticism appears when a dominant culture based on irrational optimism absorbs a critical mass of its opponents ;-)</p>
<p>The Neo-Green argument here is that transparency is constantly increasing due to monitoring technologies and media coverage. I wonder if there&#8217;s just an arms race between &#8220;transparency technologies&#8221; and &#8220;deception technologies&#8221; - with little if any net gain for transparency, and much energy wasted.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an interesting bit in Jared Diamond&#8217;s <i>Collapse</i> where he examines the efficacy of sustainable forestry standards - where some certifications are awarded by forestry companies to themselves! And again, George Monbiot recently wrote about the <a href="http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2006/05/30/the-inspectors-who-look-the-other-way/" >environmental standards inspectors for UK buildings</a>. Basically the inspections are a farce. Inspectors are independent contractors, but those who fail buildings don&#8217;t get hired again. Anyone who thinks they&#8217;re working for sustainability but doesn&#8217;t take on board these lessons about the free market is a fool.</p>
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		<title>By: JCD</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>JCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>I wouldn't be bothered by it either, if I thought that less damage &lt;i&gt;would&lt;/i&gt; be done.  But so long as the driving force of actions is the fiscal bottom line (as Walmart's are, I believe), it seems to me that they will require only the perception of ecological improvement.  That perception will be created by glossy Seals of Approval and Labels of Certification slapped on the boxes of processed foods, the standards of which will be determined in large part by the food lobby.  The illegitimacy of organic food would be close in tow.

Sort of like 'diet soda': people don't want all the sugar in 'real' soda, so they buy 'diet' and get their sweet from all those nasty (carcinogenic) chemicals.  The driving force may have been thought to be a push for more a healthful beverage, but the end result doesn't seemed to have secured that end.

Perhaps I am pessimistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be bothered by it either, if I thought that less damage <i>would</i> be done.  But so long as the driving force of actions is the fiscal bottom line (as Walmart&#8217;s are, I believe), it seems to me that they will require only the perception of ecological improvement.  That perception will be created by glossy Seals of Approval and Labels of Certification slapped on the boxes of processed foods, the standards of which will be determined in large part by the food lobby.  The illegitimacy of organic food would be close in tow.</p>
<p>Sort of like &#8216;diet soda&#8217;: people don&#8217;t want all the sugar in &#8216;real&#8217; soda, so they buy &#8216;diet&#8217; and get their sweet from all those nasty (carcinogenic) chemicals.  The driving force may have been thought to be a push for more a healthful beverage, but the end result doesn&#8217;t seemed to have secured that end.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am pessimistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 12:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-43</guid>
		<description>There is an extent to which I'm not bothered about people's reasons for doing eco-friendly stuff - as long as the practical upshot is less damage to planetary ecology. Let Walmart sell organic food - anything to get the principles of farming without petrochemicals more firmly established.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an extent to which I&#8217;m not bothered about people&#8217;s reasons for doing eco-friendly stuff - as long as the practical upshot is less damage to planetary ecology. Let Walmart sell organic food - anything to get the principles of farming without petrochemicals more firmly established.</p>
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		<title>By: JCD</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>JCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2006/06/neo-greens/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Excellent; I agree that a strong dose of skepticism/realism to be needed in confronting pseustainability and its proponents.  Especially as consumer desire for ecofriendliness (so that they may feel they are using their sanctioned agency--choice of market product--to save the planet) will push megacorps to acquire a thin veneer of it.  Something like walmarts recent move into the organic food market.

But glossy magazines are sort of like crack anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent; I agree that a strong dose of skepticism/realism to be needed in confronting pseustainability and its proponents.  Especially as consumer desire for ecofriendliness (so that they may feel they are using their sanctioned agency&#8211;choice of market product&#8211;to save the planet) will push megacorps to acquire a thin veneer of it.  Something like walmarts recent move into the organic food market.</p>
<p>But glossy magazines are sort of like crack anyway.</p>
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