<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Shroom review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2007/04/shroom-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2007/04/shroom-review/</link>
	<description>Ecological crisis and archaeologies of consciousness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 10:17:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2007/04/shroom-review/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2007/04/shroom-review/#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Thanks eggy. Evil twin of &lt;i&gt;Supernatural&lt;/i&gt; - good image! I think both books do a job that needs doing, and in the dialectic between the positions they represent I hope the debate will move forward very healthily.

I don&#039;t know much about Allegro, but I remember that the book really opened me up to what Hillman calls &quot;the etymological fantasy&quot;. You have to stand back at some point and realize that, in terms of verifiable knowledge, this sort of stuff is poetic fancy at best, bullshit at worst. But there&#039;s a need - in me at least - for a certain amount of this associational, mythic exploration of the past. It needs to be reigned in and placed in perspective by reason, but not nailed down and left to die. I firmly believe it just comes and bites you on the arse if you attempt this.

I wondered why Andy left out Peter Lamborn Wilson&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Ploughing the Clouds: The Search for Irish Soma&lt;/i&gt;. Possibly because it didn&#039;t really have much impact, and he was looking at &quot;culture&quot;. Maybe he thought it beneath criticism! Anyway, I thought Wilson&#039;s argument, in the rallying of evidence, was over-dense and often questionable, but the theoretical basis was excellent. He made much of the concept of a &quot;Soma-function&quot; - basically &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt; that genuinely transported you to a deep altered state, be it whatever kind of mushroom, another plant, or even a ritual practice. He makes his bottom line the fact that a Soma-function almost certainly existed, even if we&#039;re stabbing in the dark as to its exact nature or identity. That frees you up to speculate without gravitating to dogma. I think this neatly gets round a lot of the narrow vision where people like Wasson try to pin things down to a definite plant - leaving Letcher to easily demolish such a fixed idea, and throw out the whole enquiry.

Lewis-Williams is careful to apply this sort of openness to his ideas, despite the impression given by Bahn &amp; Helvenston&#039;s bitter rebuttal titled &lt;i&gt;Desperately Seeking Trance Plants&lt;/i&gt;. I think he&#039;s right to insist that it needn&#039;t have been a psychedelic plant involved; but again, it&#039;s good that Hancock has gone out and done the research to leave the door to the mushroom theory as open as it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks eggy. Evil twin of <i>Supernatural</i> &#8211; good image! I think both books do a job that needs doing, and in the dialectic between the positions they represent I hope the debate will move forward very healthily.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know much about Allegro, but I remember that the book really opened me up to what Hillman calls &#8220;the etymological fantasy&#8221;. You have to stand back at some point and realize that, in terms of verifiable knowledge, this sort of stuff is poetic fancy at best, bullshit at worst. But there&#8217;s a need &#8211; in me at least &#8211; for a certain amount of this associational, mythic exploration of the past. It needs to be reigned in and placed in perspective by reason, but not nailed down and left to die. I firmly believe it just comes and bites you on the arse if you attempt this.</p>
<p>I wondered why Andy left out Peter Lamborn Wilson&#8217;s <i>Ploughing the Clouds: The Search for Irish Soma</i>. Possibly because it didn&#8217;t really have much impact, and he was looking at &#8220;culture&#8221;. Maybe he thought it beneath criticism! Anyway, I thought Wilson&#8217;s argument, in the rallying of evidence, was over-dense and often questionable, but the theoretical basis was excellent. He made much of the concept of a &#8220;Soma-function&#8221; &#8211; basically <em>something</em> that genuinely transported you to a deep altered state, be it whatever kind of mushroom, another plant, or even a ritual practice. He makes his bottom line the fact that a Soma-function almost certainly existed, even if we&#8217;re stabbing in the dark as to its exact nature or identity. That frees you up to speculate without gravitating to dogma. I think this neatly gets round a lot of the narrow vision where people like Wasson try to pin things down to a definite plant &#8211; leaving Letcher to easily demolish such a fixed idea, and throw out the whole enquiry.</p>
<p>Lewis-Williams is careful to apply this sort of openness to his ideas, despite the impression given by Bahn &#038; Helvenston&#8217;s bitter rebuttal titled <i>Desperately Seeking Trance Plants</i>. I think he&#8217;s right to insist that it needn&#8217;t have been a psychedelic plant involved; but again, it&#8217;s good that Hancock has gone out and done the research to leave the door to the mushroom theory as open as it should be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eggy</title>
		<link>http://dreamflesh.com/blog/2007/04/shroom-review/comment-page-1/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>eggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dreamflesh.com/archives/2007/04/shroom-review/#comment-389</guid>
		<description>Nice review! As much as I tried to not like it I did enjoy the book. It seemed to me to be the evil twin of Graham Hancock&#039;s &quot;Supernatural&quot;. Graham also explored the David Lewis-Williams thing and came up with what I thought was a more comprehensive outline of what that was all about, why it makes sense, what the naysayer&#039;s have to say and why they do not make sense. He points out that although the model Williams puts forward does involve altered states of consciousness, he&#039;s not particularly interested in exploring how entheogens (might) fit into the equation.
The John Marco Allegro thing is quite messy. I cant figure out whether his work was just a backlash at the (Catholic) establishment for debunking what he had to say about the Dead Sea Scrolls or whether he really did have something to go on. Anyway, there&#039;s a book called Astrotheology &amp; Shamanism by Jan Irvine and Andrew Rutajit that explores this a bit more, introducing a whole bunch of stuff in support of Jesus being a symbol for an entheogenic mushroom.
Entries on all three of these books appear in my blog/ website if anyone&#039;s interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice review! As much as I tried to not like it I did enjoy the book. It seemed to me to be the evil twin of Graham Hancock&#8217;s &#8220;Supernatural&#8221;. Graham also explored the David Lewis-Williams thing and came up with what I thought was a more comprehensive outline of what that was all about, why it makes sense, what the naysayer&#8217;s have to say and why they do not make sense. He points out that although the model Williams puts forward does involve altered states of consciousness, he&#8217;s not particularly interested in exploring how entheogens (might) fit into the equation.<br />
The John Marco Allegro thing is quite messy. I cant figure out whether his work was just a backlash at the (Catholic) establishment for debunking what he had to say about the Dead Sea Scrolls or whether he really did have something to go on. Anyway, there&#8217;s a book called Astrotheology &amp; Shamanism by Jan Irvine and Andrew Rutajit that explores this a bit more, introducing a whole bunch of stuff in support of Jesus being a symbol for an entheogenic mushroom.<br />
Entries on all three of these books appear in my blog/ website if anyone&#8217;s interested.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- This Quick Cache file was built for (  dreamflesh.com/blog/2007/04/shroom-review/feed/ ) in 0.24836 seconds, on Feb 11th, 2012 at 11:56 pm UTC. -->
<!-- This Quick Cache file will automatically expire ( and be re-built automatically ) on Feb 12th, 2012 at 12:56 am UTC -->
